We Should be Meaner to Casey Means

SPECIAL RELEASE EPISODE: We are publishing this episode early to ensure timely release. 

Qualifications for the US Surgeon General are outlined in the US Code  (TITLE 42 / CHAPTER 6A / SUBCHAPTER I / Part A / Section 205). Casey Means, current nominee for US Surgeon General (as of March 2026), does not meet these qualifications. In this episode, Mattie leads us through the history of the US Surgeon General, the importance of this position, the necessary credentials to hold this position, and why Casey Means is not qualified for this role. Plus, listen to Casey Means as she tries to defend herself against Senate questioning...it went as well as you can assume.

Recalls (see FDA.gov for more details):

• 02/27/2026 - Savannah Bee Company, BBQ Sauce. Undeclared allergens, including wheat & soy. 
• 02/27/2026 - RHINO CHOCO VIP 10x, Chocolate. Undeclared Tadalafil
• 02/26/2026 - Quest, Cat Food Chicken Recipe Frozen. May contain low levels of thiamine (Vitamin B1)
• 02/25/2026 - Boner Bears, Chocolate Syrup. Undeclared Sildenafil
• 02/25/2026 - Great Value, Cottage Cheese. Not fully pasteurized
• 02/24/2026 - Elite Treats, Chicken Dog Treats. Salmonella
• 02/20/2026 - Made Fresh Salad, Various Cream Cheeses & Tofu Spreads. Listeria

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Welcome to Public Health Group Chat, the podcast that advocates for shaming people publicly more. I really think we should start shaming people, specifically men, but all people work too.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

We don't discriminate.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

We don't discriminate.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

I'm an equal opportunity hater. My name is Ariel. My name is Maddie. And I'm Olivia. The views expressed on this episode are our own. If you want to get in touch with us, you can email us at publichealthgroup chat at gmail.com. And you can find us on TikTok or Instagram at public health group chat. Please reach out, tell us what you think, and let us know if you have any ideas of topics you want to cover. Just like send us some mean things too, like anything, guys.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Or like send us, send us like wrong answers only for stuff. Or money. You can send us money.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

You know, I was thinking of starting one of those things that's like buy us a coffee. Okay, so I have some good news and public health to share. This is not a huge win and it's still something that is in process, but it feels like a good omen right now. So it's kind of local, local to the state of Colorado, because we love Colorado, but Colorado is currently in its legislative session. And we are in a bad budget year. We are about$1 billion in the hole. So it's really hard for legislators to decide what money to cut and what to fund and what not to fund. And bills often come with a fiscal note. So the ones that are more expensive, it's gonna be really hard for them to pass. As part of the budget for the next fiscal year, it has been proposed that$3.3 million are cut for public health. The joint budget committee voted on this, I think it was last week now, and they voted three to three. So three people voted to cut funding for public health. Three people voted not to cut funding. And because it was a tie, the funding cuts to local public health did not pass. The final budget won't be done until around mid-May. So it is not a sure thing that current public health funding levels will be preserved. But it does show that the people in charge of this are understanding of the value of local public health. And there has been a ton of advocacy work going on behind the scenes. And so that vote of three to three that failed is showing that that advocacy work is working. So a very small win, but it is not over yet.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Shout out to Calfo. They are doing the work behind the scenes to help advocate for the bills that support public health or against the bills that don't support public health. So truly.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

And I just don't think people realize how much work local public health offices do. Like I think when people think public health, they think of like the CDC and like the bigger picture stuff, but like the local public health is where it all really happens. So a win is a win.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

Yeah, I mean, I think it's probably important for us to note for listeners, uh, states are different on how they organize their public health organizations. And so for Colorado, it's called decentralized, which means that local public health organizations have a lot more, well, decentralized power. And they are uh actually um, they take guidance from their local public health boards or local boards in their cities and and districts. And so it's just really interesting in the way that funding is kind of all trickles down from the state down to these local public health organizations. Whereas in some states that are centralized states, and I think it's like Florida is a centralized state, you have what are the state public health, and there is, you know, a few organizations throughout the state that are state public health organizations, and they kind of serve all the different areas and counties based on what they decide at the state level. So it's interesting being in a decentralized state like Colorado because you have public health directors in most of the counties in Colorado. Some of them share the same public health director or public health organization, and they get to make decisions based off of like the local taxes and the local decision making and interests of their constituents in that area. And so it's kind of just like all these different decision makers across the state. So that's my little background behind centralized and decentralized.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Alrighty, ladies, are we ready to start internet harassing people? Um, yes, I'm here for it. Great. So this week we are going to be talking about Casey Means and her nomination for the position of Surgeon General. So my first thoughts as I'm going into research this was that I Google her because that's what you do when you first start researching something. And what pops up under her name on Google is American Author and Influencer. Not researcher, not scientist, not doctor, which I personally don't want to see that for my surgeon general. I don't know about you, but like I don't want to see influencer. Like before fucking real. Like, come on. Um, it's not influencer general. Yeah. So that was my first thought I had to put out there.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

I don't want an influencer for a lot of things, let alone our surgeon general. We I mean, we're kind of trying to be influencers, but yeah, okay. Public health influencers are fine.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

But we're trying to actually spread like facts and truth, not bullshit and powdered salad.

SPEAKER_02 5:19

But in at the end, you should buy our moringa paste or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Last week was boner bears chocolate syrup.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

Yeah, the boner bears. Oh man, I'm snotting this norm.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

God, that was a great day, and my history was not Googling that before that happened. So I figured I would start with the history of the Surgeon General position. And like most things in the government, it's a little convoluted. So buckle up. I did my best. Um, so in 1789, Congress established the U.S. Marine Hospital Service to provide health care to say sick and injured merchant seamen. This is considered the predecessor to the U.S. Public Health Service. So, like what we know is the U.S. Public Health Service today. Um, and for background on that, the U.S. Public Health Service, it's a commissioned corps, one of the nation's uniformed services as a branch committed to the service of health. Officers advanced the nation, the nation's public health serving in agencies across the government as physicians, nurses, dentists, veterinarians, scientists, engineers, and other professionals. And there's about 6,000 of them. In 1870, the Marine Hospital Service was reorganized as a national hospital system with centralized administration under a medical officer known as the supervising surgeon, who was later given the title of surgeon general. So the first person that we would know by supervising surgeon, surgeon general, is Dr. John Woodworth, and he was appointed by President Grant in 1871. Um, and then in 1889, so we're bringing it all the way back, uh, Congress recognized this new personnel system um by formally authorizing the Commission Corps, so the U.S. Public Health Commission Corps, was established along military lines to be a mobile force of professionals subject to reassignment to meet the needs of the Marine Health Service. Originally, the Corps was composed of only physicians. And then prior to 1968, the Surgeon General was the head of the public health service, and everything flowed through them, like programming, admin, finances, everything. Yes, Ariel.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Okay, Maddie, I might be getting ahead of you, or this answer might be obvious and you're gonna laugh. But have there been any women surgeon generals yet? Yes. There have been.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Mostly in like recent years. The first was Antonia Noveo. Yeah, Antonia Noveo. And she was the first woman and first Hispanic person to serve as the Surgeon General of the United States. And she was appointed by President George H.W. Bush in 1990.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

And she served until 1993.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Awesome. I was born in 1990. I feel old saying that. Um, okay, and then so where were we at?

SPEAKER_00 7:55

That was a great question. So prior to 1968, the Surgeon General was the head of the public health service and everything flowed through them. So, like programming, admin, finances. But then President LBJ restructured the system and the office of the Surgeon General was abolished, and then the position of Surgeon General became that of like the principal deputy to the assistant secretary for health with responsibility for advising and assisting on professional medical matters. In addition, a primary role developed in which the Surgeon General became the public health service spokesperson on certain health issues. Then there's a series of times between then and now where the assistant secretary for health and the surgeon general positions were combined, separated, combined, separated. So it gets a little confusing in there. And then in 1987, where the Office of the Surgeon General was re-established and then became the head of the public health service. But the Surgeon General does not directly supervise all Commission Corps officers, but most work in the public health service or other agencies and report to line managers of those agencies who may or may not be in the corps. So in carrying out all responsibilities, the Surgeon General reports to the Assistant Secretary for Health, who is a principal advisor to the Department of Health and Human Services Secretary on public health and scientific issues. So another thing of note is the current Assistant Secretary of Health for Health is an MD, and he's also in the public health service. And it's Admiral Brian Christine. But then and so then also in 1987, the Surgeon General C. Everett Coop launched a major effort to revitalize the core, and there was a big focus on recruitment, especially of women and minorities. So although the position of Surgeon General is not an inherently powerful one because they don't have direct policy-making powers, their opinions can be precedent-setting. For example, there was a report from Surgeon General Luther Terry in 1964 that basically said that smoking was bad for you and it started sparking the nationwide anti-smoking movements. So that one opinion can really change a lot of things, even though he didn't directly make policy. And then in 1986, a report again from C. Everett Coop on the importance of age education and condom use for prevention really started changing that in schools and also in public health systems. Um and he also resisted pressure from the Reagan administration to report that abortion was psychologically harmful to women. And he then stated that he believed it was more of a moral issue rather than one concerning the public's health. So yeah. So I was like, so I was like, I kind of get it. Him being like, that's just not the public health's business. And I'm like, you know what, sir? You get it. Um, okay, and then this is a direct quote from the HHS website. As the nation's doctor, doctor, the Surgeon General provides Americans with the best scientific information available on how to improve their health and reduce their risk of illness and injury. The Surgeon General brings the best available scientific information to the public by issuing Surgeon General's advisories, calls to action, and reports on critical issues, and communicating directly with the public via a number of communication channels. What stands out to you all about that statement?

SPEAKER_02 11:12

The best scientific information available on how to improve the health and reduce their risk of illness and injury, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

And there's nothing about influencers in there. Yes. Not a damn thing about influencers.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

The best available scientific information, scientific underlined.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Also, nation's doctor. Doctor.

unknown 11:34

Doctor.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

This will come in. I I am emphasizing this because this will come in later. So then we know about the Surgeon General. So how do we decide who is Surgeon General? So according to the U.S. code, yes, I busted out the U.S. codes for this. The U.S. code, Title 42, Chapter 6A, subchapter 1, Part A, Section 205. The Surgeon General shall be appointed from the regular corps. So the core is referring to the U.S. public health services for a four-year term by the president and will be when with the advice of the consent of the Senate, the Surgeon General sort of be important from individuals who are, number one, members of the regular corps, and two, have specialized training or significant experience in public health programs. So that's in the US code right there. So unsurprisingly, the Trump administration is trying to break more laws, but what's new? And I will say that this was kind of noted there's not like a specific amount of time that they have to be in the core before being nominated. So that is kind of a loophole. But I I stay I stand by it. It says there that they have to be in the court and have specialized training or experience in public health programs. Um, so the Senate has to approve the nominees by a simple majority, so over fifty 50%. And hearings are held before the Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee. Help.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

I love the name of that committee. I'm a member of the Help Committee. Please help help.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Like if I ever, if I ever became a senator and was on that committee, my door sign would just say help and it would and it would hit.

SPEAKER_02 13:08

Um They're not really helping because they also confirmed RFK Jr., right?

SPEAKER_00 13:13

The irony is not lost on us.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

We're gonna say the opposite of a shout out to Bill Cassidy. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

Fuck that dude.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

Thumbs down.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

What's the opposite of a shout-out?

SPEAKER_00 13:24

A curse upon his house.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

The gallows.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

To the gallows. To the gallows. Um so currently there hasn't been a surgeon general during Trump's second term. Um his initial nominee was former Fox News contributor, Jeanette Jeanette Nishaywatt. Let me know how to say that if I say that wrong. Sorry. Um, after news reports said, but so like after she was the initial nominee, news reports came out that Nishaywatt has misstated her academic and medical credentials. They had qualifications for her? They were lied about.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

I'm surprised they looked into them in the first place.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

So all of this backstory is now coming around to why we're talking about this. So currently, or at least starting the starting at the end of February, they started doing hearings for Casey Means for Surgeon General. So who is Casey Means? She is an influencer. Yep. Who, by the way, has sponsors that have been accused of selling products with hazardous ingredients like unsafe levels of lead, cadmium, and forever chemicals. Um, and then she's had a ton of sponsors on her page, like creams, teas, you name it. She's pushed it. So that's a really fun quality in our potential surge in general. Um, and that nominee that's super, super healthy by me. She's also the co-founder and the current CMO of a tech company called Levels that sells continuous glucose monitors.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

Okay, two things. First thing, I'm kind of annoyed that she took took the name Levels because that's a pretty badass name for like some sort of technology related to, I guess, glucose monitors or like any kind of like medical technology. Pretty dope. Not gonna, you know, knock her for that. I'll knock her for everything else. Second, the fact that she's selling glucose monitors when you only need glucose monitors for like what is it, diabetes? Yeah, literally diabetes. Like very specific. And and the argument that you should be checking your glucose for the average healthy person is just so fucking like just snake oil salesman of her. Not surprised, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Snake oil salesman, and I don't know if I mentioned this later in the podcast. So if I say it again, forgive me. But it's like$1,500 a month to subscribe to her levels stuff.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

Wait, wait, like$1,500 a month a month to test your own glucose? Yeah, for her levels company. It's like what is she giving you?

SPEAKER_00 15:48

I don't know, but it's like it's it is crazy to me that it's like the normal people don't need this. Also, it's so expensive. A month. A month.

SPEAKER_02 15:59

Okay, well, I don't know if that makes me feel better or worse because it's like the average person isn't gonna get scammed from her then. You know what I mean? Like maybe I don't know. I have a hard time feeling bad for someone that post$1,500 a month to check their glucose.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

That's and and I'll talk about this later, but like that's the hard part about a lot of the Maha movement is they get you by saying something that makes a semblance of sense, and that's how they suck you in. Because some of these things inherently aren't bad ideas, but how they talk about them and how they want to implement them are horrible. Like, and they ignore the social determinants of health and they ignore public health systems. So, like, we'll get into it. But and then they monetize. Then they monetize it, yeah. But yeah. So I'll I have we have like a whole section on that. Don't you worry, ladies, we can discuss this. So who else is Casey Means? She's an author of the book Good Energy, um, which she called, quote, one of the most successful health books of the decade, end quote. So successful that I, someone who reads nonstop and cares a lot about health, have never heard of it prior to her just blobbling on my screen.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

That's like us saying that our podcast is the most successful podcast in history of podcasts. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

Let's manifest that. Please.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Let's manifest it. Please. Um, so about the book, it's supposed to be a guide to optimizing health by focusing on metabolic function, arguing that many chronic diseases share a root cause in how our cells create and use energy. And the book allegedly provides a framework for achieving metabolic health through practical strategies, including a four-week plan, food principles, exercise, and using technology to monitor biomarkers, aiming to empower readers to prevent and reverse conditions like diabetes, heart disease, and anxiety. Which again, like I said, like these aren't inherently bad ideas, like wanting to like encourage people to like eat healthier foods or like exercise more, but they're completely ignoring the social factors that have influence on your health behind these things. So it's like they're ignoring like, do you have access to healthy foods? Like, do you have the money from a job to buy it? Are you in a food desert? Do you have time to go out? Do you have access to a gym? Do you have access to green spaces? They're ignoring all of that and just focusing on blaming the individual for the systems that they're in and completely ignoring the systems.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

And let me guess one of the prescribed, you know, things that she wants people to do is check their glucose with liquid.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Probably, yeah. I would guess that is what they mean by like the using technology to monitor biomarkers. I would love for her to name one biomarker and tell me what it does. Um, but aerial, yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

And Maddie, what you said about her ignoring the social determinants of health is like feels like a continuation of our conversation in the last episode of the dietary guidelines, where in the that report that we talked about, the special committee literally talked about how health equity is not important for the science and they really just focus on eat healthy and exercise. But we talked about how the health equity piece is central in good public health. So her brand is like on point with Maha and the administration.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

It's really frustrating to constantly hear people talk about health and ignore all of those social structures that actually impact your health. Anyway, who else is Casey Means? Well, she has multiple accusations of FTC violations by allegedly failing to disclose she's received compensation from companies while promoting their products. Senator Murphy is who brought this up. Senator Murphy in Connecticut, it's on the health committee. So he brought up these accusations and cited financial data outlined in her outlining her corporate sponsorships that was provided to the help committee ahead of the hearings. Um and he argued that means was undermining Americans' trust in the medical profession and raising ethical concerns over her conflicts of interest. Um, so yeah, that's who we're nominating for Surgeon General. But who else is Casey Means? Casey Means is kind of a doctor. I say kind of, because she did graduate med school from Stanford in 2014 and then went to Oregon Health and Science University for an ENT surgical res surgical residency. I need to do like my theater kid uh vocal warmups for the next time I do the I do the research because it's a lot. It's a lot, it's so many words, so many letters. Okay, back at it. And then she dropped out of her surgical residency literally six months before the end of the residency. And she says she dropped out because it didn't focus on the root causes of these health conditions enough. She decided stress and then also kind of became disillusioned with the state of healthcare in the country. She then moved to functional medicine and opened up a clinic in Portland called Means Health. Her medical license has lapsed in 2024. So she did graduate med school, but she doesn't have a medical license.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

Why do you wake up one day and you're just like, I'm gonna let it lapse? I've only been a doctor for, I don't know, 10 years. I'm gonna let my medical license lapse.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

I don't know. I feel like if I work so hard to get it, I would want to like kind of keep it up. I don't know. That's just me. I agree.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

Unless she's just bringing raking in the money from her, I don't know, her FTC violation work. All the work she does to get FTC violations. Yeah, seriously.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Yeah, I'm not defending Casey Means here, but I can empathize with her dish I can empathize with her disillusionment of the healthcare system. I've heard that from many doctors and even working in public health, not as a practitioner, just kind of understanding how the healthcare system works. It is depressing. So I get that piece.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

I mean, I can imagine it's like especially dealing with insurance, a day in a day out that must be exhausting and and burns you out, but doesn't mean that you then and then this is not saying you're empathizing with her, but it doesn't mean that you then add to the issues. Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

Yeah, and she makes this like big to do about like them not focusing on the root causes, but then she ignores the Social determinants of health, which are genuinely the root causes of like why a lot of this stuff is happening. So I don't get it. The hypocrisy is real. We should be meaner to Casey Means. Should be meaner to Casey Means. Okay, so her hearings, they started at the end of February. And so what are our big takeaways from the hearings? First and foremost, I think that's something that care we care a lot about here on this podcast is um her stance on vaccines. So she comes off as very wishy-washy and she won't really say either way of what she thinks, which is effectively just pissing everybody off. Um, like both sides of the spectrum are upset with her because she won't commit. Um, but she does have RFK Juniors backing and she's big Maha girly.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

So I mean, I think the assumption is she's probably not a fan of vaccines, nor will she, at least she won't like advocate for them, that's for sure. Especially if she's under RFK Jr.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Yeah, she promotes the shared decision-making idea. Um, and she's also said that she's accepted the scientific evidence that vaccines do not cause autism, but added, quote, science is never settled, and that we should, quote, leave no stone unturned. So let's just waste everybody's time and money. Anyway, I think that's an insane thing to say, but who am I to say? She also is very, she's like really against the HEP B vaccine too, because she only really refers to it as like a sexually transmitted disease. And so I I was like, of all the hills to die on, why hep B?

SPEAKER_02 23:36

And don't don't ever give her another license again. Like ever. There is a clear indication that it's not just a sexually transmitted disease. It is disturbing.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Yeah. So there's that. During her hearing, her disclosures were brought up, her financial disclosures. So there was$325,000 from promoting supplements since the beginning of 2024, including nearly$135,000 for a longevity supplement and$46,000 for wellness fees and elixir. Elixirs. Elixirs. I know.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

That is the I just picture her like pouring a bunch of random shit into a glass jar and shaking it up and putting it online and selling it. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

I'm gonna say it's just rude to the actual witches out there that are making actual elixirs that are like made with like pagan properties. Like, how fucking rude are you to take that from them?

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Yeah, and sell it as bullshit. Like that's so rude. I need, I want, can we start a movement witches against Maha? I don't know who to talk to about that, but I I want to champion that cause. Get a hat.

SPEAKER_02 24:45

We'll get a P.O. box, and the first listener that sends Maddie the hat to the P.O. box, you can send us a clip, and if it's has some semblance of normalcy, we'll put it on the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

I mean that with an asterisk. You have to be somewhat normal, and then we'll put it on the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

So it has to we have to vet it out first and then we'll put it on the podcast. So both of these elixirs and longevity supplements, which is just longevity supplement is French for bullshit. Um both can cost upward of$100 a month for somebody consuming them per person. And then this is when I talk about the annual fee, is for the means tech company levels is$1,500. And the senator who brought this up is the senator from Wisconsin, and I cannot remember her name, but she's like, that is the average price of rent in Milwaukee. And I was like, damn girl, you have a point. Yeah, that's how expensive that is for her levels company. Other things that have come out uh during her hearings, she's a big maha girly. Ew. She had like a whole I like watched an interview with um Food Babe on Instagram and Food Babe's like up her ass, um, which immediately means like I hate her. Is if Food Babe likes her, I hate her.

SPEAKER_02 26:03

I'm so sorry you had to watch that. Like, that's the worst part of research.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

Yeah, I was like not. It wasn't like I think it was like an MPR thing, so it was like she they just used like her clips. So I didn't have to watch the whole thing, thank god. I might have started screaming. Means said she thinks every American needs to be wearing a glucose monitor, making a connection between high blood sugar and dementia, cancer diabetes, and heart disease and stroke. You do not need this, you do not need this unless you have diabetes. No, you do, and it costs$1,500 a month.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

An extra mortgage payment. No big deal. Girl, if my mortgage payment ends up being$1,500 a month, I'm gonna be the luckiest woman in the world. Are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Yeah, that was$1,500 a month in some places, certainly not where any of us live.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

True. It's like three times that let's do a throwback to our CDC episode where they got like the 17 acres of land for like a pack of cigarettes and like a long hug.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Like I know. Where where is that program today? Can I buy that money?

SPEAKER_00 27:06

I saw some, I saw like on Instagram somewhere. I can't remember. I think it was like a a tiny island off the coast of like Ireland or somewhere is like paying people to go live there. I was like, God, my dream.

SPEAKER_02 27:16

$90,000. You have to, I think you have to be an Irish citizen. So I don't think it's like to anyone. I was reading about this. There's a lot of negatives. The house needs to be in complete dis like repair, like a disarray. It needs to be a mess. And then you also need to have a job and like like actually give to the local economy. And if you're going to a place that's in the middle of nowhere, you're probably just gonna be a sheep farmer. So like I don't know what that$90,000 actually does. Sorry, Maddie, to ruin your dreams.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

That's okay. Honestly, you should rather ruin them now before I like really start like microdosing this idea to Kyle slowly but surely, and then then he rips it away from me. I'd rather be told now than Kyle being like, this is ridiculous for me to be like, Do you hate me? If you don't like me, you could just say that. Like at the altar, like, are we on Ireland or no? Be really funny. Okay, so sorry. So then, also in her hearing, Senator Susan Collins from Maine brought up her book, Good Energy, um, and quizzed her on her use and recommendation of psychedelic mushrooms in the book. Um, to which Means replied, quote, as a private citizen, it is in many cases different than what I would say as a public health official. I think when it comes to psychedelic therapy for mental health issues, I think the science is still emerging. And so it certainly would not be a recommendation to the American people to do that. So, like, do as I say, not as I do. Got it. Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. That's totally what I want for my search in general.

SPEAKER_02 28:53

One second. Fuck you, Susan Collins, for that's what you decide to bring up. Like that's where you pitched your tent. Because I don't even have a personal issue with using mushrooms or like ketamine or like those kind of things under like seriously like regulated therapy sessions. Like there has been some proof that that actually does help with mental health issues. Kind of annoyed that she feels the same way. And that's where she decides that she's gonna like like Casey Means agrees with that and says that. But I'm annoyed that it's also, you know, do as I say, not as I do, kind of thing. But this is fuck you, Susan Collins.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Yeah, like that's a weird hill to die on, but like it does it did bring out like the idea of like that she's not gonna practice what she preaches and vice versa. Because if you believe in it, say that, and if you don't say that, you can't say both. Yeah, no, definitely. I just wish it wasn't this as an example. Yeah. Um, then also in her hearings, Amin's praised Trump and Kennedy for focus on quote, more whole, healthy food, addressing financial conflicts of interest in our agencies, funding research focused on disease prevention and reversal, and making institutions accountable to the American people with measurable health outcomes. And end quote, they have not done a single one of those things. And in fact, they've made it worse, which tells me everything I need to know about her. That like she believes that they're doing these things when they have like defunded so much of like all of like their big focus on chronic illness and they like completely defund it. Like you can't you can't do both. They haven't done a single thing in that list. They haven't done a single thing in that list. And they're saying that like they're doing all this stuff and making agencies more accountable and blah, blah, blah, blah, and all they're doing is just making everything worse.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

What makes me so angry about this all is that it's like people that ha have chronic diseases and that have felt like not heard by our system are getting a semblance of one of our leaders are saying now chronic disease or healthy food or you know, the connection between our diet and chronic disease, or, you know, the putting some sort of attention on it. And so they're feeling heard, but that's all it is. Like, I'm so glad they feel heard, but I wish it was by somebody that actually had a plan in place to make a difference and wasn't just using it as a like a talking point. Like they have no plans to make a difference in our system. And those people that have suffered because inevitably that hasn't really been the focus, and we're still learning so much about chronic disease. Like, they do deserve leaders that focus on those things. And we do have things we need to improve in our health system. But they're just using that as a way to sound like they're making a difference.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Yeah, it's all like they like to use the buzzwords and talk about healthy food and clean air and clean water, and then at the same time, roll back policies that protect these things and do the opposite of what they're saying. But people don't take the time to be like, oh, this policy is being enacted. Oh, this funding is being clawed back. They just hear what they want to hear and don't pay attention to the details.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

So they they they say we're at, you know, stark advocates against glyphosate Roundup because it's on our food and it has been linked through settlements as causing cancer. You know, there is some background information that it is potentially linked to causing cancer. And then all of a sudden, um, Roundup and Monsanto that makes Roundup all of a sudden is getting a bunch of settlements, you know, over five billion that they have to pay out in settlements. And they go to the federal government and say, um, we need to be non-lible for these in the future. And so we need some sort of government intervention. The government says, okay, we're going to use the Defense Production Act. Sorry, I know we're getting off of Casey Means right now. I promise this comes back. We're going to use the Defense Production Act and say that we are going to make a mass amount of Roundup to support American farmers, like they've ever could have American farmers. And now all of a sudden, RFK Jr., he's the spokesperson for supporting the use of Roundup because it follows the administration's values. And that is a huge issue, actually, has been a huge issue with Maha. There were some people that came off of that. But they say they're against one thing and then they actually support policies to promote that thing. So it just, it's insane to see that. Makes me so mad. Anyways, I'm done.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

Seriously, that is a prime example of the mentality and the logic in the not only the Maha movement, but also in the party as a whole. But another part of Casey Means, I think this is my last fun little tidbit that has come out of the hearings, were her views on birth control. So previously, she had called birth control a quote, dis disrespect of life. Okay, she but now she's saying she believes that contraceptive pills and miphapresterone, God fucking shit, miphapresterone should be widely accessible, adding that all medications have risk and benefits, but doctors don't have time for enough to inform consent, blah, blah, blah. Citing shared decision making again. So it's just like again, we'll say one thing and then say whatever she has to say to get the physician, and it's like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Yeah, it sounds like she's talking out of both sides of her mouth, trying to please everyone, and you don't know what she actually thinks.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

Right. You don't know what she actually thinks, and like this is case in point of like that shit doesn't work because she doesn't have the votes as it currently stands. So it's like you gotta pick a hill to die on. Yeah. In the end, she probably thinks whatever RK thinks. Yeah. Like she's just gonna be another yes man. Yeah. Yes woman. Whatever, yes person. Someone who just says yes all the time. For our final piece of discussion around this, why is this bad? Besides the obvious. First off, I personally think this is bad because she isn't a fucking doctor. Like, I just really think to be the surgeon general, you have to have like an active medical license. Like, I get that she has the training for the most part, but like she left her residency program because it was too hard.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

So she can't make it through a residency program and she's gonna be a surgeon general.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

Well, and the other part too is it's like, okay, I would get it if she was like a um, like a nurse practitioner, or if it was somebody else who had active medical licensing of whatever level, or even a PhD and was an active researcher or something, but it's like she's not that. She literally is just an influencer now. She doesn't, she doesn't, she's not keeping up with the science. She's like not doing all of this normal stuff. I just I feel like it doesn't really matter if it's an MD or a DO or like a nurse practitioner, somebody needs to be like having an active medical license of some sort in this position.

SPEAKER_02 35:36

If you're providing scientific, the best well-known scientific evidence, right? You're supposed to present the most recent, you know, conceptualized and, you know, agreed upon scientific information, you probably should have a license because your license also when you renew your license, you have to take continued education courses and kind of get up to date on what's new in the medical field because research is always changing. So really, she's just not linked with what is constantly changing in the medical field. And she's not up to date with that. And she shouldn't be the one that's then telling the United States on what we should be doing to keep ourselves healthy. Right. She doesn't know.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

And I also think somebody who is giving like who is the person to give medical advice to the secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services should be a medical provider.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

It makes sense, you would think. And I'm going back to the code, Maddie, and it's literally all of her qualifications don't match anything in the codes. Like, why is she even a candidate? Who is keeping track of these things besides us? Surely someone out there has noticed. You would think.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

Because we live in the Twilight Zone.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

Well, that and like the based on precedent, the Trump administration clearly does not give out any amount of a shit about the US code and they're just gonna do what they want to.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

Well, yeah, our secretary of war or whatever it's called is Fox News announcements.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

The Department of War.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

Literally has like Oh, by the way, we're in war now, guys. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

Okay. Anyways. Okay, I have one tidbit of my new philosophy is like you cannot talk to me about Iran. You cannot talk to me about world affairs unless you can point that country out on a map. I think that's a good rule. Thank you. I just put it on TikTok, it got shut down, but I think it's hilarious. Um, but yeah, like it's yeah, you cannot, you cannot give me your opinion until you can tell me that you know where that country is. So do you all have any like last opinions on like why this is bad?

SPEAKER_02 37:41

I mean, I think it's, you know, just baseline. It's just another yes man in RFP's, you know, toolbox. Inevitably, anybody that's gonna work in these positions has to be a yes man for him. They don't last long if they're not, they don't last long if they're not yes men for Trump, right? If he gets bad PR media, like we just lost the uh, which I'm not upset about the director of the FDA, he's gone. He, you know, there's whatever her name Christy Gnome. Christy Gnome. Yeah. Um MAGA Barbie, Nazi Barbie, whatever her name is. Um, she's gone. You know, so you do one wrong turn media and you're gone. You have to be a yes man for this administration. And so inevitably, yeah, I mean, I could see why this person is being confirmed. They're friends with RFK Jr. And also her brother, which I know you didn't get into, is an avid disinformation source and has been friends with RFK Jr. for a long time. So this whole family is linked to RFK Jr.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

He was also a co-author on her book. I didn't really do a ton of research into him. I like got like base level information about him, and he was super skeedy. I hated those.

SPEAKER_02 38:49

Oh, he's icky.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

He's like massive ick situation.

SPEAKER_02 38:53

Yeah. I mean, I think we could do a whole episode about him too, because there's all these actors behind the scenes when it comes to health and all the decision making in the administration that stay out of the limelight, but you know, they're all making moves behind the scenes. But I'm also wondering like we we like hold these standards. I feel like the Republicans versus Democrats, like they're still they still hold standards for getting into those positions. I would like to see a little bit of change, but I'm also I also do not want an influencer as our surgeon general.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

So there has to still be guidelines and boundaries here. Yeah. Or like following the guidelines and boundaries that are already put in place that have been law for like ever.

SPEAKER_02 39:29

Yeah, no, it should be somebody from the core.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

Well, I just think if you're gonna represent them, you should have worked with them, you know. We also should do a better job translating what the surgeon general is because people see surgeon and they assume, you know, you have to be a medical doctor. That is like a requirement or was and a licensed medical doctor. But also like they represent public health as a whole. It's not just, you know, the pit ER kind of thing. This is not about the healthcare system in the ER or at in a doctor's office. It's also about public health as a whole. And, you know, I think clearly defining the difference between that role and the CDC director role needs to happen too.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

Well, and from these hearings, one last thing that I thought was incredible. Um, in the immortal words of Senator Bernie Sanders about the hearings, quote, I am having a hard time understanding how this will make America healthy. End quote.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

Yeah, Bernie, way to sum it up so perfectly.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

Yeah, because that's I constantly look at myself and I'm like, how is this making anything anything healthy? Like, I want that on a t-shirt, please. Another hat. Put it on a hat.

SPEAKER_02 40:36

Thanks, Maddie. So the answer is that we have to be meaner to Casey Means and really hope that she doesn't get confirmed. Yep. For this episode of Public Health, what's on your shelf? Uh, our recalls this week, some of them are probably uh rep, you know, repetition from last week, which I was unfortunately not in that episode. So I missed you guys. Um, but the most recent recall of interest that I think is really important is on 225-2026, which I think Ariel, you said was last week, which is the great value cottage cheese. Um, and that is that it's not fully pasteurized. And we hate raw milk and not pasteurized cottage cheese, especially when you expect it to be. Um, and non-pasteurized cheese and non-pasteurized milk can lead to so many different enteric diseases. So for this great value cottage cheese, you can buy it at Walmart. Um, it was recently recalled again for not being fully pasteurized, and it was in so many different states: Alaska, Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, California, Colorado, Georgia, Iowa, Idaho, Illinois, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Missouri, Mississippi, Montana, New Mexico, Nevada, Oregon, Texas, Tennessee, Utah, Washington, and Wyoming between February, February 17th. Okay, girl, go ahead. Flex on us. I'll just be an auctioneer after this. Between February 17th and February 20th, 2026. So if you bought cottage cheese from great value in at Walmart in any of those many states I just listed, you should throw it out between that time.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

Okay, question before we move on. How can milk or cheese be not fully pasteurized? I thought it was like pasteurized or unpasteurized, but how was something partially pasteurized? I have no idea.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

They probably didn't heat it to a to the temperature they were supposed to. Like there was probably some malfunction in whatever heats it because you have to heat it up to a certain temperature for a certain amount of time, and maybe they just didn't do it as much or as long or as high. Um, but that's a good question. We should probably look into that for the future. Um, the next thing is elite treats, which was recalled on the 24th of February, and it's chicken dog treats. And they may be contaminated with salmonella. So don't give your dogs that, especially dogs with, you know, poor immune systems or um liver issues. You know, these are not good things to have. Um on 220, 2026, the Made Fresh Salad, which the company makes various cream cheeses and tofu spread. It has been recalled for listeria contamination. Uh Rosabella, oh, back to our favorite moringa capsules on 213, 2026. Um, has possible contamination with salmonella. And then Tippitoes, baby food, has elevated levels of petulin, which is a mold, and that was on 213, 2026. Um, I'm gonna stop there. There was more, but you can see our show notes. And then um, yeah, throw it your cottage cheese. You don't need it, it's gross, anyways. Okay. Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

This has been another episode of Public Health Group Chat. Don't forget to be meaner to Casey Means, and don't forget to reach out for us if you have something you want to say.

SPEAKER_00 43:51

Don't get bogulated.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

I just love that you said reach out for us. Like, reach out for shit. Should I redo that?

SPEAKER_02 44:00

Just let me reach out for us.