WICked Games: Congress Plays with Benefits

In this episode, Ariel breaks down the WIC program (Women, Infants, and Children) as Congress moves to cut its benefits. She covers what WIC provides — cash benefits for healthy foods, nutrition education, breastfeeding support, and referrals to other services — plus eligibility and its history dating back to the early 1970s. She shares the data on WIC's impact, including major health care savings and improved birth and child health outcomes, then unpacks a House-passed bill that would strip $141 million in produce benefits from over 5.4 million participants, even as the administration's own MAHA report praises the program. The bill now heads to the Senate, and Ariel shares how to make your voice heard before the vote.

This episode's good news is the reinstated flu vaccine mandate for U.S. service members after a major base outbreak. Also, stick around to hear Mattie talk about World Cup hospitality and what it says about public health.

Recalls:
Find all recent recalls at: https://www.fda.gov/safety/recalls-market-withdrawals-safety-alerts

Clipped News & Media: 

• Forbes Breaking News: Rep. Janelle Bynum (D-CT) criticized cuts to WIC.
• 4 News Now: "WIC prepares for, pushes back against potential funding cuts".

Transcript

Olivia 0:00

Really talked about my sex life in this lost podcast. Is your mom listening?

Mattie 0:03 Mattie 0:03

She was, but I don't think she is anymore. And I'm kind of grateful for that. And I hope it stays that way. I'm so sorry, Frankie. Um, let's jump into some good news. I have two things, short and sweet. One of them is a big F you to Heg Seth, uh, our Secretary of War. In April, he rescinded the flu vaccine requirement for the US military, which has been around since like the 1950s. And I don't know if you know any of this background history, but George Washington, General George Washington, had a mandate for the military in 1771 for the smallpox inoculation. So can we just say that this goes back far, having military mandates? Because first of all, men are gross. We know this, and a lot of them are in the military. Second, they all crowd together in like small bunkers and they do weird things together. And you know what? Infectious diseases just thrive. So it's a good idea to have flu vaccination mandates or any kind of infectious disease mandates for the military. Yes, Maddie? Isn't like their whole spiel being like wanting to do what the founding fathers wanted for this country? And if George fucking Washington wanted vaccine mandates, I don't think you can cherry pick it. Do it, say it with your whole chest, put your whole buttise into it. Like, why are we like all of a sudden being like, no vaccine mandates if that's what George Washington did?

Olivia 1:26

Yeah, really. If we want to be hardcore with the founding fathers, pull all your teeth out Hegeth and then put wood instead as a replacement.

Mattie 1:34

And then we can really say that you're Secretary of War. So um I would like to say the good news of this is that that is no longer in place. Um there was unfortunately a major flu outbreak on the Lackland Air Force base, which was over it was over 300 cases. I don't even know where the Lackland or Air Force base is. I did not look into it, but it's somewhere in the United States, and there was a big outbreak there. And uh officials at HHS, actually not HHS, the Department of War, claim that the decision to bring back the mandate for flu vaccines has nothing to do with this outbreak, um, which is quite interesting and coincidental, of course. But whatever, we're thankful that it's back in place because as I said, men are weird and military bases are highly crowded. And shout out to the women in the military holding it down the fort for us.

Ariel 2:20

Yes, Ariel. Just want to say that this is a perfect episode to talk about the Founding Fathers because it's dropping on July 3rd, and July 4th is Independence Day. So good job, team.

Mattie 2:30

Oh, wow. Pull all your teeth out and put wood in the place of it. If you really love the Founding Fathers. I was gonna say, I was like, we probably need to note that uh I think that wood narrative was a lot of time used as like uh whitewashing of history because the teeth where you came usually from enslaved people. Yeah. Yeah. I take it back. So I think we probably would be remiss if we didn't mention that. I wish it was wood. I wish it was wood too. More apple. Um I will say type on an apple tree if you love the founding fathers.

unknown 3:04

Yeah.

Mattie 3:05

I will say, if um, with it being 4th of July, I need everybody to know if you see me celebrating the 4th of July, which you will, I am celebrating Dolly Parton, hot dogs, and golden retrievers. That's really it.

Ariel 3:16

Ariel, what are you celebrating? I am celebrating a day off of work. Also, please know fireworks if you live in Colorado. The whole state is on fire. Thank you.

Mattie 3:27

Yeah, don't do that. There's so many in Denver. Like literally every single one of the Denver and the surrounding areas still have firework shows. And I'm like, that's crazy to me.

Olivia 3:36

No, I hate you, and my dogs hate you if you're gonna set off fireworks in Colorado.

Mattie 3:40

Um, I'm celebrating day drinking, so that's what I'm gonna be celebrating on July 4th, and then the hangover will be what I'm celebrating in July 5th. Um, so, anyways, that was our good news. But I think it's probably time to reiterate that Arielle is not here to take your vegetables. Um, and she has a topic to cover today. What are we talking about?

Ariel 4:02

All right, so today we are going to talk about WIC. And for those of you who don't know the acronym, WIC is Women, Infants, and Children. And with recent current events, it's especially relevant and it's a very important public health nutrition program.

News Reporter 4:17

Thousands of mothers in Washington who use the WIC program to afford groceries could soon pay more. The Women, Infants, and Children Supplemental Nutrition Program gives families a certain amount of money each month to buy fruits, vegetables, dairy, protein, and other groceries. But a new bill approved by the House Appropriations Committee called the 2027 Agricultural Appropriations Bill proposes funding cuts to WIC's program, or produce program, rather. Local WIC offices are now pushing back.

Interviewee On News 4:46

With our client base, they're already struggling to be able to afford nutritious foods. And so WIC steps in and provides that in such an impactful way. The measure is now moving to the House floor for consideration.

Ariel 5:01

So we'll talk more about news and politics later, but I will say right now that reducing WIC benefits is not good for public health. Who would have thought? So I'm going to structure this a little bit differently than the SNAP episode. So first I'll give an overview of the program as it stands today, and then I'll go back in time and talk about the history of the program. What is WIC? I already said what it stands for. It provides nutrition education and support for pregnant people and children under five years old. It is under the Food and Nutrition Administration, or the FNA, which is a USDA agency, and it is administered by the states, even though it's a federal program. WIC provides a number of benefits, including one, monthly cash benefits to buy foods like produce, baby food, formula, dairy products, eggs, beans, legumes, etc. Participants can use what is called an eWIC card, which looks like a debit or credit card. And if you listen to our SNAP episode, it's similar to EBT cards used in SNAP. And again, for anyone who's having trouble keeping up with acronyms, EBT is electronic benefits transfer. I guess I should define SNAP, the supplemental nutrition assistance program, commonly known as food stamps. A second benefit provided by WIC includes nutrition education, so this is shopping advice, kid-friendly meal planning, tips for picky eaters, and help with food allergies and other dietary needs or restrictions. A third benefit is breastfeeding support. Breastfeeding sounds easy, especially if you are a man or have never had to do it, but I understand it doesn't always go smoothly or come easily to people. Can't speak from my own experience, but I have heard that it can be challenging. Another benefit is that WIC provides additional health and community resources. While nutrition, education, and support is crucial, it is just one piece of the health puzzle, as we all know as public health experts. WIC staff can refer participants to healthcare providers like pediatricians and dentists. They can help people get connected to vaccines, immunization services, and they can refer folks to other community resources as well. This is a really good example of a program that provides wraparound support. And wraparound support just refers to giving people all the things they need to be successful instead of providing just one individual service. Yes, Maddie.

Mattie 7:12

I was gonna mention so throughout all of my time, I knew of WIC. I didn't know that WIC provided support around what they're actually providing, like so providing that nutritional information and lactation support. I didn't know that. And that makes it even cooler.

Ariel 7:29

Yeah, it is a really cool program. And I have never worked in WIC specifically or delivered WIC services, but they really do so much.

Olivia 7:36

I'm like honestly just embarrassed because I have a master's in public health and a doctorate in public health, and I don't think I knew anything about WIC up until this point. Like I've heard about it. We always talk, I feel like Snap is the one that's like in the news, you know?

Mattie 7:49

Snap is just more popular. Or sorry, no, I was just gonna say Snap is just not not so much more popular, but I think it's more commonly used because WIC is a smaller subset of folks. Maybe it's also the population.

Ariel 8:01

We don't really care about mothers in this country very much, right? That too. I would also say your specialty is environmental health. So it makes sense that WIC was not really a big part of your education. And then thinking about your work background, I don't think you really would have interacted with it much. So don't feel bad that you don't know a lot. I just recently learned most of this stuff. I knew a tiny bit about it before, but it was just this year that I was like, wow, WIC does so much. Moving on to eligibility. WIC, like many public health programs, is an income-based program. So to be eligible, pregnant people and small children up to five can make up to 185% of the federal poverty line. This is also based on family size. So if any listeners are curious about their own eligibility, you'll need to check with your state or local WIC office for more information. The complications are a little bit convoluted and I definitely don't know the numbers off the top of my head. WIC is eligible for people who are pregnant, who are postpartum, and that is defined as six months after giving birth, or breastfeeding, and that is defined as up to one year after giving birth, if you are breastfeeding for that time. It is for children until age five. And while fathers or male guardians are not eligible themselves, they can apply on behalf of their children under five years old. And then similarly to SNAP, participants or households enrolled in programs like SNAP, Medicaid, and TANF, which is temporary assistance for needy families, they are automatically eligible for WIC without providing additional income justification. And that's really great because the more paperwork that you throw up people to access these programs, the less likely they are to be able to access them because it is a huge burden to go through all the red tape. Like it's not fun. And there are people whose literal jobs it is to help you get registered for these programs.

Mattie 9:39

Do these people still have jobs? Are they federal jobs? Did they lay them off? I'm just wondering. Because if you don't have people to help people enroll, then you don't have people to enroll. You don't, then it's less likely people are going to enroll. And that's the whole administration's goal, right?

Ariel 9:56

Right. So WIC, like I said, it's under the Food and Nutrition Administration, which to be honest, I'm not sure if they had big cuts and rifts like other agencies, but WIC is actually administered at the local level. So if you still have state staff and local health department staff doing the work to get people enrolled and doing all the education, the things that come with it, it is still being delivered. But that's a really good question. That's good news though. That it's still being delivered. Yeah. I'm gonna go on now to talk about the history of WIC. In the 1960s, Americans became aware of hunger among low-income pregnant people and new parents as a growing public health concern. In 1968, a group of physicians met with a group of government officials to develop a food commissary program in which pregnant women who were hungry could receive a prescription for foods from commissaries that were built next to clinics and stocked with food. So literally, you'd go to your doctor's appointment. If you were identified as being hungry, you could get this prescription and just go down the hall or next door and get the foods that you need. So pretty cool to have those services side by side. And then at the same time, a separate program developed by Johns Hopkins University physicians developed a similar voucher-based program to distribute food in a specific neighborhood of Baltimore, Maryland. So essentially the same program, but developed by two different groups in two different geographic areas. In 1969, the USDA developed the Commodities Supplemental Food Program, which provided commodities to feed low-income pregnant women, infants, and children up to age six. Unfortunately, this program did not meet this population's needs. WIC was established in 1972 as an amendment to the 1966 Child Nutrition Act as a pilot program. It became permanent in either 1974 or 1975. I found both of these years cited in my background reading for this episode, so I'm not totally sure, which is correct. If anyone out there knows the answer, please let us know. The first physical WIC site was established in January of 1974 in Pineville, Kentucky. And then by the end of that year, WIC was up and running in 42 states. So that's like really fast. Originally, it was available for children up to age four, and postpartum mothers who did not breastfeed were excluded. Eligibility was extended to postpartum mothers and children up to age five by 1975. And in these early days, eligibility was determined by both income and inadequate consumption of specific nutrients. Eligible supplemental foods had to be high in nutrients like iron, vitamin C, vitamin A, calcium, and protein. And WIC was designed to supplement food stamps, so people participating in the food stamp program were not excluded from WIC. It wasn't until 1978 that specific income eligibility criteria were established, and these qualifications were linked to free and reduced price school lunch eligibility. I don't want to get too bogged down in the history, but I will include a couple of notable historical events related to WIC. In 1989, WIC state agencies were required to enter cost containment contracts for all infant formula used in WIC. And this was in response to a quick rise in infant formula prices compared to price increases among other covered foods. In 1987, Tennessee used a competitive bidding process for a formula manufacturer to have exclusive rights to be covered under WIC in exchange for formula rebate. And this model actually became quite popular. And wouldn't WIC be really helpful for Americans right now, given everything is unobtainably expensive? Yes. And we will get there. Yeah, 100% agree. WIC, super important program, super helpful if you are eligible and sign up for it. A plug to sign up for WIC if you need it and you can.

Mattie 13:28

But the whole idea of like subsidized infant formula, given that everything is so expensive right now, that is incredible. And all government like run programs like that. Okay. All right.

Ariel 13:40

I see. In 1989, adjusted income eligibility for other programs for people with low income to simplify the WIC application process. And this is the income verification piece. This is what I mentioned before about when you're eligible for things like WIC, SNAP, TANF, etc. You just apply for one and then you're automatically eligible for others and reduces that barrier of more paperwork and more paperwork. In 2004, we had the Child Nutrition and WIC reauthorization act implement provisions to maintain competitive pricing among WIC vendors. Also, a breastfeeding peer counselor initiative was launched to get woman peer support. In 2009, mothers who breastfed exclusively got additional benefits. So basically, more healthy foods in exchange for exclusive breastfeeding. In 2010, all states were required to adopt an EBT system. That's even more recent than SNAP, which was in 2002. And that is crazy to think it was only that recent that these benefits were distributed electronically. Like I was 20 years old in 2010. They were all done by the mail before? I don't know that they were all done by mail up until that point, but I'm not sure what the like the phasing out of the paper in mail versus electronic was. Like I'm sure that some states did it more quickly than others, but it was 2010 when all states had to do it electronically.

Mattie 14:57

That's crazy. That is crazy. I want to go back to the exclusive breastfeeding. Has there been any changes to that, or is that still the case?

Ariel 15:06

I think that is still the case. Do you remember, or maybe you don't, but in the 90s, there was just kind of a big push for more breastfeeding and including in WIC. And so it kind of became a movement nationwide.

Mattie 15:20

Yeah, I just don't feel like that's very fair, but I'm not in charge. So here we are. Because it's like like you mentioned earlier, that is an extremely difficult thing to do, and not every woman person can do it. So I just don't think it's fair that you lose out on those additional benefits just in case you just can't, you know? I don't know. Yeah, I agree with you. But I don't know how to regulate that or fix that.

Ariel 15:53

So yeah. And breastfeeding, again, like I mentioned, is so much harder than it sounds like, yeah, you just put the baby on your boob and it eats. But think about um women who are working, so you've got to deal with pumping and your schedule. And it's just a lot of work. Like all of it, whether you're breastfeeding, whether you're pumping, it takes so much time. It's unpaid work. And depending on the rest of your life, it just might not be possible. And fed is best. As long as your baby is eating, that is the best thing.

Olivia 16:22

Isn't there like there are some cases where women cannot biologically breastfeed though, like produce milk, right?

Mattie 16:29

Yeah, like I mean, there's like a lot of like extenuating factors that go into being able to breastfeed or not. Like, for example, I had a breast reduction, and while I was like there, they're like, Oh, if you ever have kids, you probably can't breastfeed because all of the stuff there has gotten moved around for your breast reduction. And I was like, Oh, okay, well, it's not really a problem. Like, we're not having kids. And they're like, Well, even if you were gonna have kids, you probably couldn't either because of how like dense your breast tissue was anyway when your breasts when your breasts were bigger. So there's like there's like a lot of things that can go into it. And like some people just like don't really produce as much milk, and sometimes your baby needs more. Like, you know, there's like a lot of factors, but just overall to make like a proposal that says you have to do X, Y, and Z to get X, Y, and Z is so aligned with the administration. Like it's just so political. I mean, I get that it is a federal funded program that goes and is distributed by local organizations, but still like the idea that we want people to breastfeed more, so we're gonna incentivize those individuals through Wicked President in 2009.

Ariel 17:32

Was it Obama?

Mattie 17:33

It was Obama. So I don't think that would be reflective of because I was like expanding WIC. Yeah. Well, because you started saying that. I was like, I'm guessing anytime WIC is expanded, it's definitely under a Democrat. So just back up a little bit. So I just want to double check and make there is a whole war behind me, like I said, of dogs. But like you were saying that it's not that it's it's not negative on somebody that's not breastfeeding, it's just more incentivized if there is. Yeah, you just get more additional benefits if you exclusively breastfeed, right? It's just like a bonus thing.

Ariel 18:06

And I can I can understand the intention behind it because we have a ton of data showing that breastfeeding, it's really good for your baby. You can pass along immunity, like there's a lot of good things, but it's just not realistic for everyone. So I can see the intent behind it. But because of the way our society is structured and just biological reasons, not everyone can breastfeed. So it doesn't seem fair. And again, I don't know who made these decisions, but how much do you want to bet it was men?

Olivia 18:31

I'm gonna put a lot of money down on that.

Ariel 18:34

All right, so I'm gonna move on to share some data. So I want to make it very clear that WIC improves health and it saves lives. This program is very well researched and it has the reputation of being one of the most successful federal nutrition programs. So some of the WIC-related health outcomes include improved birth outcomes and savings and health care costs. Reports published by the USDA that linked 1988 WIC and Medicaid data on over 100,000 births found that for every dollar spent on prenatal WIC participation for low-income Medicaid women in five states resulted in longer pregnancies, fewer premature births, which is defined as before 37 weeks, reduced incidence of low birth weight, fewer infant deaths, a greater likelihood of receiving prenatal care, and savings in healthcare costs ranging from $1.77 to $3.13 within 60 days after birth. Those numbers sound small, but that's between 177 and 313 for every dollar invested, right? That's just not like a per person number because that is really small.

Mattie 19:36

I was I was about to say, I was like, what a weird hill to die on, but okay. I guess it is saving money. No, but when you put it like that, that makes a lot more sense.

Ariel 19:47

Yeah, and um that statistic holds today. It's a it's a similar value. Because 1988 is almost 40 years ago. I did have to look up the WIC cost savings to see if that 177 to 313 still held up. And it did. So in 2019, a study showed similar results for every dollar invested in WIC. $2.48 was saved in medical, educational, and productivity costs. So we see this pattern holding up over time. And this same study also estimates that a 10% increase in WIC enrollment would prevent 141 preterm births and lead to an additional $6.5 million in cost savings. So for everyone out there saying we spend too much money on WIC and people are taking advantage of the system, that's not true. More investment in the program is gonna benefit us as a country. And so don't listen to those anti-welfare talking heads.

Olivia 20:37

Okay, thank you. I just want to go around with the mic and go to like those mega campaign like events and be like, what does WIC stand for? Just tell me. Where how much money are we are you paying every year in your taxes towards WIC? What does WIC do? Because I didn't know, so I highly doubt they know.

Mattie 20:53

Like it'd be quite interesting.

Ariel 20:55

Ooh, I actually I did not look up how much money the average American taxpayer spends on WIC a year, but that would be a good statistic to know and to have added here. Okay, so Maddie has looked it up for us, and the average American taxpayer pays between 45 to $50 per year on WIC. And I think that is wonderfully cheap. And I spent more money on coffee beans this past week.

Mattie 21:17

Yeah, don't genuinely think I spent more money on coffee this week than I have, like going out to get a treat than I have. Hold on, back up. Coffee beans or coffee? Yes. Coffee beans.

Ariel 21:27

I make coffee at home.

Mattie 21:28

Where are you buying your coffee beans?

Ariel 21:30

I mean, I live in a town. There's like stuff here. I live, I go to the local coffee shop. Well, I bought a c a more than one bag.

Mattie 21:37

Okay. All right. I just wanted to clarify like, where the fuck are you buying coffee beans? Like, are we buying six Costco bags? Like, what are we doing? I under I agree with you, Maddie, though, I've spent more than forty five dollars on treats and it's only Monday. So I I would love if more than forty five to fifty dollars of my tax money went to WIC.

Olivia 21:58

How big women and infants. Yes. Yeah. And children.

Mattie 22:02

Oh yeah, those two.

Ariel 22:07

Okay. So another outcome related to WIC is improved diet and diet-related outcomes for children. Children in the WIC program get in a higher intake of nutrients, including iron, vitamin C, vitamin B1, vitamin B3, vitamin B6, and this is all without increasing calories. So this indicates they're getting a more nutrient-dense diet. Children also get more nutrient-dense diets without adversely affecting fat or cholesterol. So again, they're getting more of those micronutrients, but they're not getting more fat and cholesterol and other quote-unquote bad nutrients. WIC has better effectiveness than SNAP or other cash income benefits at improving preschoolers' nutrient intake. And there's also a decrease in iron deficiency, which has been attributed to both WIC and other public nutrition programs. Another benefit of WIC is improved infant feeding practices. WIC participants who are advised to breastfeed are more likely to breastfeed than participants who do not receive this advice, as well as eligible non-participants. And we talked about this earlier, but I have some notes here about WIC breastfeeding. WIC breastfeeding policy and program activities were strengthened in the 1990s. Between 1990 and 1994, dedicated funding for breastfeeding specifically was $8 million per year. In 1992, we talked about this, but there was an enhanced food package developed for women who breastfeed exclusively. Also, the Homeless Children Nutrition Improvement Act of 1992 officially mandated that the USDA establish a national breastfeeding promotion program. And this set up the foundation for the Loving Support Makes Breastfeeding Work campaign. In 1998, participants could start using their WIC benefits to buy or rent breast pumps. And I actually did not look up how much those cost, but I imagine they're not like really cheap. And if you are already struggling to afford basic necessities, I don't imagine that would be high in the top of your list. They are not cheap. Holy crap.

Mattie 24:00

I mean, I don't know if there's like influencer brand breast pumps, but I mean you laugh, but there's something called Mom Cozy, and it's has an app that attaches to it. So I don't need some app or some Silicon Valley Tech Bro knowing how much I'm producing for my baby. I'm just saying that's weird. Um, but anyways, I'm looking at right now the cheapest one is like $99, but there's a manual one for $14, but nobody wants to do that. The manual ones are like $14 to $35, but the actual ones that are like pumping for you, $180 to $329. That's insane. So that's insane. And the mom cozy one is $329. So just saying you're paying, you're paying for the app.

Ariel 24:46

I'm not surprised there's an app. Like my Sous V has an app, my vacuum has an app. Like everything I own has an app, and I fucking hate it. Oh, there's one that's $5.49.

Mattie 24:55

$879. Oofy. Do you know Oofy is my robot vacuum and now they have a breast pump for $8.79? Good to know. I'm I'm just so not over the apps. I agree, but no apps. The Legacy 0240215 Symphony Plus is $1,700. Don't shut your shut that tab.

Ariel 25:19

I don't want to hear anymore about how much you can spend on a breast pump.

Mattie 25:23

I just feel like we're giving them a free cigar right now. Shut it down. I don't want to hear it anymore.

Ariel 25:29

Even like $14, like to the three of us, not a big deal, but for some people, that's just another expense that you know they can't afford and they're balancing with food, rent, healthcare, et cetera, et cetera. And for like the shittiest breast pump that you could possibly buy. All right, some more data on breastfeeding. Between 1996 and 2001, the percentage of WIC moms breastfeeding in the hospital increased by nearly 25%. It increased from 46.6% to 58.2%. The percentage of WIC infants breastfeeding at six months increased by 61.2%, so went from 12.9% to 20.8%. And 90% of formula-fed infants received iron-fortified formula, which is recommended for almost all non-breastfeeding infants during their first year of life. I have to admit, I did not look up why iron fortified formula is recommended and which population specifically should not be using that product. It's just a fun fact about WIC.

Mattie 26:25

I would assume it's because it helps with your red blood cell development. And I think you shouldn't do it if you have phenolchitonoria, because if you have more iron, it builds up in your brain. I don't know. Those are my guesses. I don't think that's right. But I do think it's because of red cell blood cell development, because you're not like getting it from anywhere else, you know?

Ariel 26:46

Right? Another outcome related to WIC is improved cognitive development. So for children whose mothers participated in WIC, they had a better vocabulary. And for children who were enrolled in WIC after their first year of life, they had a better memory for numbers. And finally, some other improved outcomes related to WIC participation are one increased likelihood of children having a regular medical provider, which makes sense because we heard about how WIC is a wraparound program and refers families to those other services. And another improved outcome is improved growth rates among children who participate. So this brings us to what is happening now, the hot topic of the day that is long awaited on this podcast. Just recently, the U.S. House of Representatives passed an agriculture appropriations bill that reduced WIC benefits.

Rep. Bynum 27:44

Thank you, Madam Chair. I can't say that I'm surprised that my Republican colleagues want to cut yet another resource to help women and children get food. This bill reduces the food and vegetable benefit for mothers and young children under WIC. And this goes against actual science-based evidence. Evidence that tells us what families need to stay healthy. And cutting these benefits leaves 5.3 million moms and kids without reliable access to fresh fruits and vegetables.

Ariel 28:25

Specifically, this bill reduces the benefits that allow participants to buy produce, fruits, and vegetables, the thing that we all know are an integral part of a healthy diet. So let me say that in plain language. Legislators are voting to provide less healthy food to women, infants, and children who are hungry and or at risk of hunger. I'm sorry, but can someone explain to me how this is part of the Maha agenda and explain it to me like I'm five and Maddie, please tell me, because I see you raising your hand.

Mattie 28:54

I got it. This is what I'm thinking. This is once again going back to the war on protein they think is happening, but really it's a war on fiber. It's the Maha bad poop scenario again that we talked about in our Beef with Beef episode. It's back. They just want you to eat meat and no one wants to have a good shit. That's what I'm convinced of. This is what I think they're doing. Me with like the Charlie Day thing behind me. Like that is the it's for the maha. It's because it's like they just want to do this stupid meat shit.

Olivia 29:27

Yeah, Maha.

Mattie 29:27

Why don't you want to poop, Maha? Yeah, what's it what's you what do you got against a good shit? Okay. I guess if you're gonna be figuratively full of shit, you also need to be literally full of shit. I guess. But that's an that's like yeah, but like if you break it down to actually what's going on, that doesn't make any sense. Because if you want to make America healthy again, shouldn't you, I don't know, have access to food, healthy food, this real food thing that they keep saying over and over and over again, like fruits and veggies, like come on.

Rep. Bynum 30:00

But here's the real kicker. The administration's own Make America Again Healthy Again report praises WIC's success in increasing fruit and vegetable consumption. Now, right here on page 34, read along with me, it says WIC has a proven track record of improving children's health. It's right there, page 34. Madam Chair, we know that these benefits work.

Mattie 30:32

It's all a grift. It's all a grift. They have a slogan which is a telltale sign that this is a grift, but they don't care and they're just using it to get their besties' peptides approved by the FDA. It's all a grift, unfortunately.

Ariel 30:45

Yes, unfortunately. The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities estimates that $141 million in benefits will take produce away from over 5.4 million toddlers, preschoolers, and pregnant and postpartum WIC participants. So this is more than 5 million people having less access to a healthy diet. But sure, let's keep building ballrooms and hosting UFC fights at the White House because hashtag priorities. Also, the bill cuts $200 million compared to fiscal year 26, which is the current year. This means that for the first time in decades, eligible families could be denied participation. Inflation due to tariffs and the ongoing war in the Middle East are causing the cost of food to skyrocket. Don't forget, we have the cuts to SNAP and Medicaid from the one big beautiful Bill Act of 2025. And so politicians are really doing their best to pull the rug out from under people. Who needs food, right?

Olivia 31:40

Um can someone apply for both WIC and food stamps, so Snap at the same time and receive both?

Ariel 31:46

Yes, you can. Like the programs are designed to complement each other.

Mattie 31:51

So it would have to be that some houses can have Snap and WIC. WIC could be within the SNAP houses, but not Snap. No, I get what you're trying to get at. It's you're only eligible for WIC if you are or have a pregnant person in your household or a child under the age of five.

Ariel 32:14

Yes. So say you have a family with a mom, a dad, and a baby. The dad would not be eligible for WIC. He might be eligible for SNAP. But the mother in the child, as long as the child is under five, would be eligible for WIC. I know that that gets confusing. So there is overlap, but there are cases where people cannot qualify for both.

Olivia 32:34

And there's cases where they could, which is really nice. And it's nice that they're not mutually exclusive.

Ariel 32:39

Exactly. And I would say if anyone listening wants to know if they qualify for WIC or SNAP, please go see your local government, either the human services or public health department to help you sort that out because it is really confusing and the paperwork is confusing. And I certainly am not qualified to tell you. I'm definitely not. So we talked about this in the SNAP episode, but I want to go back to the just get a job or just get a better job argument of why people shouldn't need to rely on these government benefits. So in addition to the fact that so many jobs simply do not pay a living wage, many people on benefits are working on themselves or situations to no longer need assistance. So like the single mom who's working and going to school to get a higher paying job to better provide for her children in the future. She is doing exactly what the cultural narrative says you should do to be self-sufficient. In degrees and training, like these things don't happen overnight. I know the three of us have studied for years and years. And then even when you have finished your degree or your training, it is really hard to get a good job. Ask me how I know. Going back to this bill, it will go to the Senate for a vote. And this has not yet been scheduled as of June 29th, the day we're recording. I looked this up right before our recording, and it looks like it will be scheduled after the July 4th holiday. So maybe as soon as next week, maybe longer. Couldn't tell you. But what I can tell you is that you can make a difference. You can call your senators, you can tell them to vote no. You can use the Five Calls app to do this. They have a script, so you don't even have to come up with something yourself. And if you are also a millennial who hates talking on the phone, have no fear because you can just call after hours and leave a voicemail. Just be sure to include your full street address to make sure that your call is tallied. So super easy. And if you don't want to download another app, just go to the website. You don't even have to get the app. Like, I don't want another app.

Mattie 34:34

You should tell your congressman that we sent you. Yeah. That the public health group chat is coming for them. Not in a threatening way because that's kind of an FBI watch list, but in a policy-changing way. We're coming for you. We're coming for you. I want to tell y'all about like, so one of my favorite things to do is call my elected officials. And for how often I do it, I very rarely get a real person. And one time I did get a real person, and I was so flabbergasted that a real person answered the phone that it took me a second to remember why I was calling.

Speaker 3 35:07

I just was like, they're like, hi, this is like Senator Bennett's office. And I was like, oh my God, you're a real person. And they're like, yes. I was like, I've never gotten a real person before. I don't know what to say. I need a second. And I have to like gather my thoughts.

Mattie 35:24

I, Maddie, I feel this so hard, but I will tell you that I have left some of the most unhinged voicemails on Hick and Looper's office voicemail. And we meet with his team every year for my job. And I just like feel really awkward because I'm like, I hope they don't put two and two together. And I know it's very different legislative assistants that are taking the calls versus meeting with constituents, but I can tell you, I've been in my car being like, Hick, I'm calling you again. Like this is not happening again. And this is me. This is Olivia Zarella at X, Y, and Z address. And you know what? I'm gonna keep calling and I am your worst nightmare. And I'm doing it again. I'm such, I'm such a dick. But it's like at the same time, I'm like, I'm your constituent, I'm calling yet again. And this poor, like underpaid 28,000 a year legislative assistant has to listen to Olivia lose her shit. You know what? That's their job though. And did you know that if you curse, they can hang up the phone on you? Oh well, thank God I'm getting a voice phone. Because Frankie called a god real person, and she basically was like, What the fuck? And they're like, ma'am, if you continue to curse on this line, we will have to hang up on you. She's so iconic. Holy shit. It was a really funny story. I was like for like one of the Republican like house people here in Colorado, and it was so funny. I was like, that's hilarious, mom. She's like, so don't curse on those White House lines. And I was like, I wasn't going to, but thank you for reminding me of that. Like they have to put them in some hard drive somewhere. And so, like, there's some voicemail out there of Frankie cursing at a legislative assistant. That's great. I wish I had the specific date because I would FOIA that shit so hard just to get all of those transcripts. Please do, and we can play it on the podcast. God, that was like years ago. So I'm gonna really have to like think hard about when she did it. Maybe she texted me. I'll see, I'll see what I can do, but I don't think we're gonna get it. But it was really funny.

Ariel 37:25

That's all that I had about Wick. But please call your senators, tell them to vote. No, this is really bad policy.

Mattie 37:33

I don't know if you heard the dog bark, but yeah, Moose agrees. Call your senators. Okay, are we ready for some public health and pop culture? Ooh, hit me with it. This shouldn't be too terribly long. But ladies, I'm so glad I've gathered us here today because I want to talk about the World Cup. I don't give a singular shit about soccer. I don't know about it. I don't want to really understand it. I don't watch it. I will I support the Denver Summit because women's soccer is important, but I it just is not a sport I care about. So the World Cup doesn't really mean a ton to me. But what I am obsessed with, obsessed with, is the reactions and responses that like the day-to-day Americans are having towards people from other countries being here. Because I think as a foreigner, you see the US and you see how terrible it is and how horrible they are to immigrants and all this stuff. I could understand being very, very scared to come here. And then when you come here, the day-to-day person is meeting you with open arms. They're so amped you're here, so excited. And I wanted to talk about a few of my favorite things that I've seen, starting with the love of Algeria and Lawrence, Kansas. So the Algerian national team picked Lawrence, Kansas, a college town, to be their state headquarters, like to be their like headquarters. And Lawrence has like embraced them with open arms. They're like, we are so honored you picked our town. We're so happy you're here. They had like a parade. Someone did like a mural of their flag in the grass. And then the um Kansas, the University of Kansas marching band learned their national anthem and played it at their first practice. And I was like, this is so great. I'm obsessed with it. And um, oh, then what's another good one? Oh, all the Scottish folks in Boston have living rent-free in my brain, but like the nicest thing that they did is they donated like $30,000 to local charities in Boston because of like the hospitality of the city. And I was like, that's so nice. They also put cones on every major statue in our city, which was fantastic. And I thought that that was even more important than the $30,000 that was donated. I didn't see that, like traffic cones. Yeah. Traffic cones. And they've been doing it. So now they're in like what, like Houston, I think, and or like New Orleans. Like they went to another state. They were in Florida in Miami, and they south welcomed them by arresting them instead of allowing them to drink in public like Boston did, because you know, that's just like a cultural representation of our city. I'm from Boston, tomato in Miami. Um, the other part that I loved about the Scots in Boston is when they would like go like party out in public, they would make sure to clean up all their trash and put it in like nice, neat, organized piles. And then, like, I watched like an interview with like one of the people that like was one of the cleaners in the parks, and he's like, This is the nicest thing. I can clean this all up by myself in like an hour. This is perfect, they're welcome back anytime. I was like, um, I've also been loving um the Europeans' reaction to ranch and the discovery of ranch and general the sizes of things, so good, the sizes of stuff. Um, I watched a video of they had it was like these two random guys had like befriended a Japanese tourist who was here for the World Cup, and they took him to go get Texas barbecue, and they took him to Lucky's, and they take him to all these places, and it's like such a uniquely American thing, and I think it has made me appreciate America more so than I have in like a long time under this administration, because it's like I think there's so much going on in the news and just kind of like America in general, it's easy to get bogged down by those big things, but then you see genuinely how kind the majority of people in this country are. And so that was just really kind of like reaffirming to receive. I appreciated it.

Olivia 41:29

Can I just say something really quickly?

Mattie 41:30

Yeah. If I was single, which I am not, I am happily married. But if I was for some reason, I would have flown right into Boston to go find myself a Scot real fast. Okay, you know what? My friend who lives in Houston, I texted her because all of the Dutch national team is there right now, or they were there last week or whatever. And I texted her, I was like, Romy, you go out there and you go get a man. He's gonna be tall. Go find him, go into those streets. I was like, how do I support you in this journey?

Olivia 42:00

Bring a win home, Romy.

Mattie 42:02

Bring a win home for America. Bring a win home for America. Get that EU passport girlfriend, do it. And I like was texting her the whole time. I was like, Did you find him? How was a parade? Did you meet anybody? Are you going on a date? I was being like the mom and mean girls because I was like, I need this for my friends. Go get him. Go get him. Yeah, there was a bunch of women that were in Boston that were like, This is the most fun I've ever had in my hometown. Like, these men, they're so fun and nice everywhere. Did you see they also did the Scots in Boston? They had a bagpipe parade to Fenway Park for them to all go watch baseball. And I also saw another guy who was like, How many innings, like, how much how long is this? They're like, it's nine innings. It was eating five. He's like, No, I'm going home. He's like, that's too long. They couldn't handle how boring baseball was and how long boring baseball was.

Speaker 3 42:50

It was so funny.

Mattie 42:52

And then there's a guy, he's uh German. It's Freddie LA. I don't know if y'all have seen him on the internet, but he's going around. Uh he's basically just road tripping through the US. He had a photo of him eating the barbecue sandwich from Bucky's off of a pile of corn feed bags that was outside. And then he was at Chili's. Um, he was doing all these very stereotypical American things, and it was just so funny to watch. And my favorite is that you just connected eating Bucky's off a corn bag with stereotypical American things. I guess it does. It's just maybe not stereotypical, but it is a uniquely American experience. For our non-American listeners, that is not anything that any of us has done before.

Ariel 43:32

Okay, I've never been to Bucky's and everyone keeps talking about it. There's not one near us.

Mattie 43:35

Like I can't just there's only Bucky Estate and it's in Port Collins. And I think they're opening up one near Colorado Springs because again, military towns get everything. But I will say the owner is a huge Trump supporter, so I try not to actively go there, but I do think you need to go there at least once to experience it, eat some snacks, but you don't need to go back.

Ariel 43:53

Yes, I do want to experience it. I will say I have been to the world's largest truck stop off I eighty in Iowa because we drive.

Speaker 3 44:00

I've been there too. Yeah.

Ariel 44:01

We drive to Chicago every year for Thanksgiving and we always stop there. And it's like a mall. It's amazing.

Mattie 44:06

That's kind of like what Bucky's is. It's like that. It literally is a mall. Like you can go buy home goods. You could buy home decor. You could decorate your entire house, sands furniture from Bucky's. My favorite pajama shorts are from Bucky's. I will give you two things. I will say this. Their bathrooms are incredibly clean, like, which is a huge win for that. And also they pay their employees very well. Their manager level positions are probably what I make as a post-PHD. Like they make a lot of money, which is, and I don't make a lot of money, but for a manager level position at a Bucky's, they're making a lot of money, is what I'm saying. Um, but it's yeah, I not a fan, will say their banana pudding is good with vanilla crackers. But their barbecue sandwiches are good. Their breakfast tacos fucking bang. I would risk my life for one of those breakfast tacos. I won't because I now have celiac and I can't do it, but oh baby, were those things good. He should stop voting for Trump. That would be great. Anyways, how do we link this all to public health? The link to public health is that there is still hope and genuine kindness left in this country, despite what we see in this news. And I think this has improved world relations, which I think can expand into so many different facets of public health, like when it comes to just foreign affairs in general. I don't know. I just feel like that's how it works with public health, is it just sometimes, goddamn, being nice is just public health. I agree with you. I think there's a lot of lessons in that cultural relevance and learning about each other's countries is incredibly important. And so there are a lot of stereotypes of America, and then there's a lot of things that are true, which is like you can go buy the biggest bag of tricks that you've ever seen in your entire life or lucky charms, and you're definitely not gonna get that in Europe. Um, and it's probably quite unnecessary to be fair. But at the same time, it is cool seeing people be like, oh shit, this food is actually really good. And a lot of people are really nice here, like in the United States, and vice versa, which is fantastic. Yes, I would agree.

Ariel 46:04

Yes. If you've never left the country and you have the means to do so, please take an international trip.

Mattie 46:09

It is eye-opening and get ready to not tip, which is quite interesting. Yeah. There's one last little thing I saw. I cannot remember her official title, but basically it's like the high imperial princess. I don't know her official title, so I apologize, of Japan. So basically the princess of Japan came and they did a private rodeo for her because she was only in town for like a little bit in Dallas and she loved the barrel racing. And so I saw someone's reel of I got to barrel race for her, and I was like, that's so cool. So even with that, the exchange of information, I feel like being showing a lot of hospitality towards government officials from other countries, I think this helps a lot too. And then the other side is the lack of hospitality that we probably should mention for the Iranian team. I always say it's not, you know, it's Iranian team. And then also the Somalian ref. Ref. And all of these things that are happening right now. So it's not, you know, it's it's one-sided in a way. Yeah. This is shout out to Canada, but the Canadian group basically said that the Somalian ref could come and be a ref there. So he's refing at the games that are held in Canada. So he still got to come do it because that's huge, because it was the first ref for Somalia. So, but that's boo on America for doing that. In the first place, not allowing him into the country, even though he had a diplomatic passport and all everything was cleared and ready to go. And they still said no because bullshit. And there are some teams I cannot remember if it was Iran or if it was another country. Their headquarters is in Mexico, despite having all of their games in the US. So there are it still there are still a lot of problems, and I'm not saying we're perfect, but I am saying that there was a little semblance of hope within the people, not the government. Yeah, like I'd missed, like even without thinking about the government, there's been exchange of culture and just a lot of friendliness between us and other countries, which has been really nice to see. So I agree with you. Yeah. Fuck the government. But sometimes people are good. What's on your shelf? And is public health what's on your shelf again? And I get the pleasure of going through a list that I probably won't be able to pronounce at all. So we are gonna start with uh 626. We're gonna go back in time. So the most recent recalls first, and then we're gonna go back in time. So 626, uh, it is June 29th today. Brown butter chocolate chunk ready-to-bake cookie dough by B-A-K-R Baker, but I had to spell it out because it's not, it's like a hipster version of baker without the E.

Olivia 48:46

Um, and it may contain undeclared soy, so not ideal.

Mattie 48:50

Our favorite Tien Vitamins is back. And this time they have collaborated with our also favorite moringa capsules. I don't know if you've been listening to us for a while, but Tien Vitamins or Tien Vitamins has organic moringa capsules and powder, and they have possible salmonella contamination. On 625 High Valley Orchard had chocolate-covered raisins, which may contain undeclared peanuts. Motherfucker. I love a chocolate-covered raisin. Raisins are so gross. Don't eat those.

Speaker 3 49:30

I love those. Don't fucking eat that's gross.

Mattie 49:34

Ariel doesn't have a lot of hot takes when she does. It's like, what the fuck?

Ariel 49:38

There is nothing worse than thinking you're getting a chocolate chip cookie and it's a raisin cookie. Like, come on.

Mattie 49:43

I mean, yeah, I could that that makes sense. But like you just have a complete like vendetta against raisins. There's so much. I do. I agree with Ariel. I don't like raisins. I like raisins. Like, I have now started to be amenable to the concepts of raisins in my trail mix, so I will have one or two for the entire bag, and that's enough for me.

Speaker 3 50:02

Okay, so chocolate covered.

Mattie 50:03

Like, what is wrong with you? I would probably eat a chocolate-covered cricket. I don't like the texture. I just weirdly squishy.

Ariel 50:10

I would eat a chocolate-covered cricket before I would eat a chocolate-covered raisin.

Mattie 50:14

I would eat harder. I would eat neither. I'm gonna be honest. Glad we all have decided. Anyways, Ariel hates raisins. Um take. 622. Morningstar Farms has plant-based buffalo chicken nuggets, hot and spicy sausage patties, which I love their hot and spicy sausage patties, and they have possible plastic pieces in their food. So get your shit together, Morningstar. Fry Pie Factory on 618 has pepperoni rolls, undeclared milk, not a vibe. And then Clover Hill Dairy has various sizes of hard and soft cheeses, including a bunch of things that I'm not gonna read, um, potentially to be contaminated with listeria. If you have any Clover Hill dairy cheeses, whether hard or soft, you should probably look at the list on the FDA.

Olivia 51:05

And then First Street, First Street Dark Chocolate Raisins, they're back at it again, has undeclared peanuts.

Mattie 51:12

I'm feeling like maybe they share the same manufacturer. Two strikes on raisins. They actually don't. I'm looking at the list and they look totally separate, which is just a wild coincidence. Confirm, two strikes on raisins. They're lying to the FDA. I'm putting it on that area. There's no way. Like, this is way too similar. We're gonna get a letter for a slander. Yeah, that's probably true. I should shut my mouth. Um is fine to eat as long as you don't eat these and you also have a peanut allergy. Nara Organics is back at it again. Whole milk powdered infant formula has a risk of botulism. So let's not give our babies botulism. That would be bad. And that is it for our recalls this week. And what we learned is that TN vitamins and moringa capsules, as well as chocolate-covered raisins in any form, are not are not acceptable to any of us, apparently. So, because I would die from peanut allergy and you guys just hate raisins. So um, that's what we have for public health group chat today. Frankie, if you're listening, send us a message that just says plain don't curse at the White House operators or they will hang up the phone. And just don't eat raisins. Don't eat fucking raisins. It's two spikes on raisins here today. Don't eat fucking raisins. All right, well, it was nice to talk to you all and see your faces. All views are our own, and you should subscribe to our podcast. You should also give us a rating because it's the best way to tell us that you love us and other people. And if you like our personalities a lot, you should also subscribe.